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September 23, 2017 7:33 am

Friday Free for All – June 30, 2017

Friday, June 30, 2017 @ 12:00 AM

It has been a very  interesting week, with the  actions in the B.C. Legislature and  here we are  on the eve  of  Canada’s  150th birthday.There should be plenty to talk about.

It is time for the Friday Free for All.

You pick the topic, but  obey our  three simple rules and remember,  name calling will not be tolerated.  Comments which include  insults to others will be,  at the least, edited,   possibly removed,  and may result in the loss of posting privileges.

Keep it clean

Keep it legal

No Bullying

Comments

It didn’t take Justin Trudeau long after he was elected, to barge across the floor of the House of Commons. all the while telling a member to “Get the F*** out of my way” as he assaulted another member, a female member before assaulting yet another member by grabbing him by the arm!

Any bets on how long it will take Horgan to cross the floor to throw a punch at a Liberal Member?

I wonder how close Weaver will be sitting to Horgie! Their love won’t last and perhaps instead it will be poor ol’ Andy who will suffer the wrath of Horgie’s temper!

    Hmmmm, I wonder if I should have made that a Public Service Announcement, in memory of what’s his name?

      Wonder if it was him that finally went off the deep end and was busted in the Kamloops for uttering death threats against Christy Clark and Steve Thomson?

      That’s pretty nasty, even for you, Sparrow.

      He isn’t the only one that has a deep contempt for MLA Clark. and birdie keep your dumb a** ideas to yourself. Abbotsford’s air quality is a hell of a lot better then the soup that you live under.
      Cheers

      ceers

      Air that we breath west of town is much better than the stuff in Crapitsford—it is so foul you can almost chew it.🐮💩🤢

      Don’t get all worked up old timer…you don’t want to have a big jammer… then would have to change your name from Kim to Fill:D

      Retired 02, you sure spend a lot of time defending Abbotsford’s air quality! Defending the indefensible, haha! Between sucking in cow turd fumes and constantly inhaling the lower mainland’s noxious auto and truck exhaust as it constantly funnels it’s way up your valley, I’m surprised that you are able to remain conscious! Obviously that oxygen tank that you keep nearby is helping!

      Meanwhile, up here in the Hart, it’s a beautiful sunny day and the air smells fresh and clean! Aaaaaaahhhh!

      Cheers!

      Hart, they call those vegetables growing in the Fraser Valley “Organic”. Wonder how all that pollution landing on the soil there can make anything “Organic”
      Years ago, had friends who traveled from Smithers to go to a Upick around Abbotsford to pick “Organic” Blueberries. I’m still laughing.
      Retired, no offense, but it makes no sense.

    If all you got is the hope that someday down the road, Horgan will lose his temper, then you should have stayed in bed to-day.

      Hey Pal we are becoming friends.
      cheers

    Assault..oh please Mr trump… hartguy you are really stretching just like trump..

    So after 16 yrs of the liberals what do we have..

    MSP rates increasing
    Icbc rates increasing
    Hydro rates in reading
    Child poverty increasing.
    Lng huge failure
    Site c huge waste of money
    Taxes and fees as they please

      Hey PVal. How do you think that the job losses from project closures and the other things in your and the NDP’s and Green’s utopian world are going to get paid for.
      You said taxes and fees are what the Libs left us with… I tell yah, you haven’t seen anything yet.
      Were in for a economic dump that hasn’t been seen since the 90’s.
      Your thinking it’s going to be all Butterfly’s and cupcakes. I think you and many others are in for a very rude awakening.
      Hang on everyone, this ride to the bottom is going to be hard.

      Let me blow your theory to shreds..

      MSP rates increasing:
      -Increasing provincial population plus baby boomers requiring more medical services. Demographics not politics.

      Icbc rates increasing:
      -More expensive vehicles equals more expensive premiums and more drivers on the road. Demographics not politics.

      Hydro rates in reading:
      -More people and heavy industry equals more demand for energy plus an aging electrical grid and infrastructure. Demographics and market pressure. Not politics.

      Child poverty increasing.
      -I do agree with this..

      Lng huge failure
      -Not quite, booming natural gas sector on the north east just need to get it to LNG status for export. This a commodities cycle not politics.

      Site c huge waste of money:
      -Your great grandchildren will thank this project.

      Taxes and fees as they please:
      -Taxes and fees are based on government service demands from a growing population..Demographics not politics.

      Without any proof, you’ve blown no theories to shreds.
      So, if we’re just posting opinions as facts, allow me.

      Increasing MSP premiums- done in lieu of tax increases. If we get rid of the premiums, they will be rolled into income tax, like the other provinces do. This will shift the burden to me, instead of my employer ( lucky enough to have employer pay)

      ICBC- legislation brought in to siphon off money from ICBC, despite the fact they aren’t turning a profit.

      BC Hydro- despite being a financial basket case the government continues to demand millions from Hydro, driving them further into the hole. No new taxes?

      LNG- laughable, but the BS continues. We should be generating a with cheap plentiful NG, if demand ever gets beyond our capability, which looks unlikely far into the future.

      Site C- demand for power is so low, ICBC regularly pays IPP’S to turn down and not generate. There is simply no demand. So they don’t put out the power, but they get paid 4x the market rate to sit idle. We have a massive surplus of electrical generation.

      The burden of car insurance and hydro tax both rich and poor on the same level. So the government hammers us all equally vs taxing high earners proportionally.

      Whoops
      Should say BC Hydo pays IPP’s, not ICBC.
      We are paying huge sums for power plants to idle.

      Northman, my turn

      MSP. We are the only province that pays a company to look after MSP.. we should be paying nothing.

      Icbc rates increasing ncreading.. because Clark took 900 million from icbc and put it general revenue to fake balanced budget, then next year starts saying icbc is out of money so up go our rates..

      BC hydro. Took a couple hundred million from that fund as well, she fired the guy she hired to review site C, when he said it wasn’t needed she let him go.

      Lng when the premier puts all our eggs in the lng basket and it fails..it her fault.. not the markets..

      BC population is not growing … so your tax excuse is wrong.

      www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/data/statistics/people-population-community/population/population-projections

      BC 2016 population 4.74 million

      BC 2021 population projection 5.03 million

      Govsux hydro power plants do not idle. Rates going up because of ageing infrastructure a result of governments using hydro as a piggy bank.

      In some cases hydro is forced to by IPP power over their own by government. Ipp power especially inefficient very expensive wind generation much more expensive than Hydro generation. Ipp power is pushed because of its liberal connections.

      People complain about the cost of site c but seem to ignore the 65 billion in contracts to IPPs. Site c is required to back up IPPs especially unpredictable wind power.

      LNG read gas costs are increasing world wide.

      Those wanting gas generation, what will be the gas costs in the future?

      Hydro electric is the cheapest electricity world wide.

      Grizzly talking about growing things in PG. We have grown some of the best politicians over the last 15 yrs that thrive on BS. and you don’t need a manure spreader because the supply their own.

    Is that still a story?

      Its a dam good one
      Cheers

On a more positive note, I hope that everyone, including those that disagree with me, has a safe, fun-filled and very happy Canada Day!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, CANADA!

    Yes indeed, I hope also that everyone has a happy and safe weekend and that no one lets a campfire get out of control.

Hope the NDPers are happy

It won’t take long for the NDP to put us back into a recession especially in light of recent announcements they have made

Get ready for some belt tightening and job loss

    What do you mean “job loss”. The out of control civil service will only get bigger and bigger under the NDP / Green Government. Free jobs for everybody!

A lot of sour grapes by the Liberal supporters. Amazing how the lib supporters have everything that happened in the 90’s at there finger tips but forget the HST fiasco the Libs created, highest child poverty rate in Canada, no increase in welfare for 10 years, the only province where seniors pay msp, trans mountain pipeline approval, BC Hydro rate increases, LNG heritage fund, ICBC rate increases.

The loss of the election can be laid at the feet of CC and her arrogant attitude. Our local reps of Bond, Morris, and previously Bell did an excellent job for the north and hopefully that will continue in opposition.

    The HST was a good idea from a small business perspective. Bunch of fear mongering and ignorance killed it.

    Not sure that I agree. I don’t remember Bond, Bell or Morris pounding their fist on the table to make some of the changes you talk about. They only game they know is follow the leader. Don’t want to break any of those steps on the ladder.

    Resident, you need to read Aesop’s Fables and learn what the term “sour grapes” actually means.

      Or just use google. :)

      sour grapes

      1.
      used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves.

      Although the fox story is pretty cool.

    Liberal supporter here..No sour grapes..Sometimes your team wins and sometimes it looses. Its a healthy part of democracy. I cant really say that for the hard-core leftists here that have pretty much demonized and called liberals (including people on this forum) every vulgar name in the book for the last 16 years..Talk about sour grapes..? Its more like a 101 proof moonshine coming from the leftist camp..

    Either way change doesn’t happen overnight and its not going to this NDP social utopia that a lot of people think it will be. With the margins so close and the new government being a minority its going to take a while to instill confidence in the house.

    I’m cautiously optimistic moving forward..

Are the parking people working today? Is today, or Monday, the day off for the city?

    We need revenues, of course they will be working!

    Monday is the day off

Now that BC has gone to the dogs, literally with two idiots running BC, at least the proposed changing of our national anthem is remaining as is instead of that inane ‘neutral gender’ anthem that some guy from Quebec dreamed up! Not all is lost! Have a good July 1st out there and ride and drive safe!

    Hoping it won’t be too long, waiting for Horgan to lose his temper and watch the Greens cross the floor, LOL!

      SO if that happens what then, Hoagie can’t remain on his throne can he, with a ‘pure’ minority gov’t then? That would be awesome to see!

      Be surprised, government can only fall on confidence motions like throne speech or budget. Be Feb before the first one they all have to attend again

      And according to the deal they made, the Greens can criticize and vote against the NDP as much as they want, except on matters of confidence. They could be in power for quite some time, certainly long enough to do serious damage to the province.

      If this happens, he’ll just have another temper tantrum. Weaver said it himself, Horgan has a problem. Wait til the honeymoons over.

Hart Guy:
“The HST was a good idea from a small business perspective. Bunch of fear mongering and ignorance killed it.”
Don’t you think Gordon Campbell lying about it had something to do with people rejecting it?

    People not understanding killed it. 5 plus 7 is 12, HST was 12, cheaper for business because they deduct the full 12 not only 5, better for the public because they get a higher rebate check paying the same as they did before. The automobile loophole of no GST was going to be closed anyway so that made no real difference. Government saved money not having to staff a PST office in Surrey. Lots of good things from HST including the billion we had to pay back

    ok karrman, you are aware that I didn’t post that comment, right? Right?

    Should I be worried about you?

    But I’ll agree with axman (who made the comment)! The HST was a good idea!

    And I’ll also agree with you, Campbell should have be forthright about the HST!

    Now, any other comments that you want to associate with me?

Ataloss! It’s all fake! A big conspiracy!

ht tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_6ftbpozuw

With the ongoing controversy about site C decided to look in the archives of the PG Citizen,(papery blog for those who are not sure what a newspaper is) to see what was being said at the time about damming the Peace.

What I read was quite interesting in that a lot of the talking points are exactly the same then as what is being talked about now.

Cost of around $880 million was excessive

Power that would be generated far exceeds current demand

3 dozen oranges for $1.00 -off topic but interesting non the less:)

FN(called Indians at the time) would lose traditional hunting territory

Land owners would be displaced with some not happy with compensation being offered

WAC not being fully open and honest about project

The more things change the more they stay the same. I think most would agree that the decisions to develop hydro electric projects 60 years odd ago have been a great benefit to the province as a whole.

Wonder what the monthly hydro bill would look like today if not for old man Bennett’s bull headedness and foresight in seeing these projects through to completion.

How will the decision to proceed with site c be looked at in hindsight 50 years from now?

    “Indians” had virtually no rights back then, and the way they were displaces was utterly reprehensible.

    As I understand it, this is how it was done:

    The people at Ingenika had adapted their traditional lifestyle to include a part of the Canadian mainstream. They made their living to a large extent by hunting and gathering the way their ancestors had, but they also trapped and sold furs as part of the larger Canadian economy. One summer they went up into the highlands to harvest berries as they always had, but when they returned they found their village had been bulldozed and they were being located far away, close to MacKenzie. Their culture, their way of life, their homes, everything wiped out. Very traumatic. Eventually they moved back to near where their village had been and rebuilt but the damage was done. Hydro and the government have tried to make it up to them in the decades since, but they never really recovered.

      They get revenue sharing with the project these days do they not? This is a river that will double in width except for the reservoir area at the dam site which is used for zero right now and zero in the foreseeable future. The dam will increase fishing opportunities in the area as well as produce power

      That’s just one of the sickening things government and the catholic church did to them. The list goes on.

      It was BC Hydro and the provincial government. The church had nothing to do with it.

Germany’s SolarWorld, once Europe’s biggest solar power equipment group, said on Wednesday it would file for insolvency, overwhelmed by Chinese rivals who had long been a thorn in the side of founder and CEO Frank Asbeck, once known as “the Sun King”. A renewed wave of cheap Chinese exports, caused by reduced ambitions in China to expand solar power generation, was too much to bear for the group, which made its last net profit in 2014.

The company once hailed as Europe’s largest solar panel producer filed for bankruptcy Wednesday, blaming cheap Chinese panels for flooding the market. SolarWorld is only the latest bankrupt solar company to blame the Chinese. U.S.-based Suniva Inc. filed for bankruptcy in April, also citing stiff competition from Chinese solar panel makers. The solar industry’s biggest problem is likely the very mechanism that led to its rise: lucrative subsidies. European subsidies, mostly in Germany, led to a massive expansion of the companies green energy industry, but eventually subsidies became their undoing as cheaper solar panels from China began to win out.

Horgan thinks this kind of industry is still a viable replacement economy for BC.

ht tps://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/05/12/europes-biggest-solar-company-goes-up-in-smoke/

    I am waiting on pins and needles for the 6 million dollar data line from Vancouver that is going to transform this dump into a high tech hub… yay

      The six million dollar solution for Broadband Redundancy is not for hooking up to six zero four . It’s for hooking up to Chetwynd . The city of PG could have done it a decade ago when the rise of the high tech industry took off to become the fastest growing industry in BC . BUT ! Telus is a big donor to the Nocred party so the north remains a high tech dead zone . Sadly the two cons and the two Nocred representatives could not care any less about diversification for PG et al . We shall see how the Nocreds vote when it gets tabled . Myself and some of the northern Greens that I know are holding back on our donations to the greens till it gets tabled . Money talks , BS walks .

      Perhaps Mike or Shirly could table a bill for the six million dollars need to open up their respective ridings to the high tech sector . As it is right now , any one coming out of school in the field has no choice but to move south, or Alberta or abroad . How could both or either of them ever have thought , that’s a good thing ?

      Ataloos I know that you keep flogging that idea like a dead horse because it is the only thing that Weaver can come up with to help the north but if there was any merit to it private industry would be all over it a long time ago.

      $6 million is chump change for Telus and if they saw any prospects in the north for a fat pipe would have started installation a long time ago. The have brought fibre optic cable to hubs in neighbourhoods to increase internet speeds to homes and I would guess the ROI on that would be quite a long time. Given that they would have no problem investing to provide a high capacity cable to a high tech industry or server farm.

      Kelowna and area are becoming the high tech hub outside the lower mainland and given what they have in terms of weather and other amenities the north just cannot compete.

      Cheap industrial land and power with excellent transportation links for heavy industry and manufacturing would be a far better selling point for the interior.

      I didn’t expect that you would get it Sparoow . Perhaps when it’s tabled you might . Would you fly in a plane without ignition redundancy ? I wouldn’t .

      Telus capex for the Q3 in 2016 was $787 million up 26% . Total 2016 capex was $2.2 billion. If the demand was there for a fat pipe $6 million would be a drop in the bucket.

      Telus is in the business of supplying this service and if the demand was there they would step up to the plate in a heartbeat- no need for money from the public purse.

      It is a ill thought out Field of Dreams(built it and they will come)proposal that Weaver has simply pulled out of his nether regions so he had something-anything to offer people in the north and central interior.

      To use your airplane analogy- it simply does not get off the ground.

      Okay sparrow . I’ll try to explain it again . If you still don’t get it , please leave me alone . Here goes . Telus being the only provider IS the problem for the high tech sector industry in PG et al . No high tech business being at the mercy of one single provider of broad band is going to invest in such an inviroment . That’s why it’s not here and won’t be anytime soon . That’s what Andrew is trying to address. I have two grandchildren that had to go first to Vancouver to work online . They both got snapped up to work in Montreal . I fail to understand how it is that some do not yet understand how big the industry has become .

      Absolutely no proof that if there were half a dozen competing firms that the high tech firms would relocate here.

      They cannot recruit people if the selection in the free full service cafeteria is not up to their standards or the yoga mats are lumpy never mind winters in PG or FSJ compared to VCR or Kelowna

      Field of Dreams.

      Sparrow , you may not care about PG moving forward as rapidly as possible but there are more than a few people and communities between you and Chetwynd . Have you been looking at the route it would take ? Any improvement/highway upgrades , even digital highways provide operatunity . I’m surprised Shirley hasn’t been working on it . She likes a shove/hardhat photo op . This time she could brandish a hunk of fiberoptics . She’d make a great Green . There’s going to be no more corperate money Shirley . You’d look great on the Green side of the aisle .

Call it whatever you like — “green” or alternate or renewable energy. Wherever governments interfere in power markets to reduce greenhouse emissions, the results are always higher taxes and skyrocketing power bills, with few environmental benefits.

The latest proof came Thursday when Ontario’s provincial Tories released secret documents showing that despite efforts by the governing Liberals to bring down Ontarians’ electricity bills this summer, Premier Kathleen Wynne and her cabinet already know that after next year’s election, power bills will have to go up – way up – until they almost double by 2028.

In their obsession with closing coal-fired power plants and replacing the electricity produced at them with wind, solar and biomass (a blind fixation shared by Alberta’s NDP), Ontario’s Liberals have made a series of awful deals with wind turbine operators and solar farm owners.

They have signed numerous long-term contracts to buy “green” power at well over the market value. And they often dump excess electricity at deep discounts into neighbouring states, losses they then pass on to Ontario homeowners and businesses on their power bills.
================================

We can look forward to the same in BC now. Whoop-de-doo!

ht tp://m.edmontonsun.com/2017/05/13/the-people-always-lose-with-green-scheme-energy-deals

    Might as well put BCs terrible ROTR plan in with that bunch.

    I thought we already had that in BC with the IPP run-of-river overpriced electricy scandel.

      We do, with not only ROTR but also windmills, they’re already costing us, thanks to green policies. But now we have a government committed to ramping up such insanity.

    Australia is a disaster when it comes to electrical generation. They have jumped into the so called renewable fantasy and now will soon have the most expensive electrical rates on the world. They have already suffered blackouts in South Australia and the grid is becoming more unstable and unreliable. Their highest loads occur in the summer and next summer is predicted a summer of blackouts.

    With the shutdown of coal generation and pinning idiotic hope on unpredictable wind their unpredictable unreliable electrical supply is causing industry to leave in droves. Australia has over 4000 MWs of electrical wind generation and just a few days ago total wind generation was only 25 mws and the existing coal generation was going flat out to keep the lights on.

    What is ironic with taxes Australia is destroying coal generation but sells coal and gas offshore in a very big way. With the coal, gas and uranium Australia should be very progressive but is letting themselves join the third world energy wise.

To all the Liberal supporters take a deep breath, find your nearest optometrist, have your eyes tested, purchase new glasses if needed and you may have a new vision for BC.

    Oldman,,, I see the latest poll on “250” doesn’t support the NDP leading a new government.

      Why would a poll in PG support the NDP. Its a PC haven.

      Cheera

    oldman, here’s something for you that I just read in today’s Vancouver Province:

    “Backed up by three crucial votes from Green MLA’s, Horgan has vowed to pursue an ambitious big-spending agenda”

    YIKES!

      Were all in for a world of hurt. Buckle up everyone.

      That’s good news. Better than spending the money buying votes.

      You think NDP spending isn’t buying votes?

    Good one

    Hey Oldman, I did! Got ’em ROSE colored for the next election in a few months, Liberal majority, LOL

Oh Hart Guy I for one can’t believe a man so great as yourself, being so busy creating jobs, running a business supporting all the other losers in the province has so much time to post comments on this site. I am an extremely busy and tired person and have no time to continually argue with other people on this site.I am too busy trying to feed my family and run my own personal affairs to bitch and moan about everything in politics!

    That’s a strange comment.

    Yet still found time to comment..

    jakeadoo, thanks for keeping up on my comments! I’m flattered!

    P.S. – I’m working even as I’m typing you this!

    P.P.S. – Did you notice how nice and polite this comment is? No bitching and moaning, none at all! ;-)

    Cheers!

Sparrow:”How will the decision to proceed with site c be looked at in hindsight 50 years from now?”

In less than 25 years the decision to proceed will be wildly applauded! There are several urgent changes coming up in the nearest future when Canada while it is attempting to meet the carbon emissions reductions that Canada agreed to in Paris. Carbon taxes will keep going up and the only way to avoid them or pay less is to use clean energy, the cleanest being hydro power.

Electrify all transportation – all railroads to run on electricity. Supply electricity for the many new electric vehicles which will be replacing worn out gas guzzlers when they are taken off the roads. Modify house and business natural gas heating systems to use electric heating elements instead. Home furnaces are easily converted since the present natural gas burning tubes can be exchanged for electric heating coils. As the climate keeps getting warmer there will be increased needs for electricity to run air conditioners. The list of possibilities is much longer. People resist change, but the changes will happen nevertheless. Might as well get used to it! That applies to everybody, including to politicians who pretend they know better!

    I don’t agree with much of that, but you make a good point. All the greenies who want to cut CO2 emissions are opposed to the very project that might help us do it.

    They must feel terribly conflicted.

    Why are you worred about Co2? Without it life would die. Can you point to any science with proof C02 is an issue? Now not what some grant sucking scientist says but what proof. Lots of those grant grabbers up in UNBC. Oh wait need more money for research to find the proof. Not one dire prediction that has been made in the last thirty years has come true, not one.

    PG you have been had.

      Seamutt:”Why are you worred about Co2? Without it life would die.”

      I think you have been had. Nobody is attempting to eradicate All CO2! Where did you get that idea from? The greenhouse effect varies with the concentration in the atmosphere of the Earth. I can’t believe that I have to explain this well known fact! Saying that life would die without CO2 is not a worthwhile serious statement when mankind’s contribution to climate change is being discussed, in my opinion.

      Seamutt:” Not one dire prediction that has been made in the last thirty years has come true, not one.” Not quite true! The average global temperature is rising steadily, as predicted.

      Seamutt:”PG you have been had.” I do not mind “having been had” if burning less fossil fuels and using instead clean renewable energy like hydro, solar, wind and geothermal leads to cleaner air, cleaner water and cleaner soil – the one we grow our food in!

      Ultimately that is the way to go for all of mankind! If you do not understand that, pity!

      PG the temperature has been rising since the little ice age and temperature where warmer before the LIA so are only returning to past level. In fact there has hardly been measurable temperature rise for the last twenty years even the IPCC agrees with that. Computer models the grant seeking scientist with their models did not see that coming.

      How do you believe so called renewables are cleaner? You have ignored the mining production, construction, raw materials, production, transportation, environmental issues with so called clean renewables.

      Can you show me the proof higher concentration in the atmosphere is an issue, show me the proof. Now low concentration, that would be a very serious issue and the earth was getting uncomfortably close to that low concentration before the recent rise.

      PG

      The high and mighty climate warrior Al Gore predicted in 2006 that that, “unless drastic measures to reduce greenhouse gases are taken within the next 10 years, the world will reach a point of no return.” Fast forward ten years to last year. Are we past the point of no return? Or has Al Gore’s prophesy of “a true planetary emergency” turned out to be a “nothing burger”

      PrinceGeorge said, “The greenhouse effect varies with the concentration in the atmosphere of the Earth.”
      —————
      True, the higher the concentration, the less effect any additional CO2 will have. It’s known as a logarithmic effect, the opposite of exponential. Look it up.
      ======================================================

      PrinceGeorge said, “Seamutt:” Not one dire prediction that has been made in the last thirty years has come true, not one.” Not quite true! The average global temperature is rising steadily, as predicted.”
      —————-

      False.

      First off, Seamutt said “dire” prediction, and there have been many of those. Please supply an example of one that has come true.

      Secondly, the prediction was that average global temperature would rise exponentially, not steadily. It isn’t. It isn’t even rising steadily, it’s been rising erratically since the Little Ice Age. And for almost two decades it hasn’t risen, absolutely contrary to those predictions.

      Try to keep up.

      I watched a show today that featured the city of Shanghai! The people that live there have to put up with fine particulate particles in the air which usually exceed the maximum allowable by several times. On that particular day the outside reading was close to 200. In their apartments people run air cleaners which can clean the air to acceptable levels. The visibility in the city is very poor, due to (as stated by the residents) the many coal burning power plants. The tap water can not be used the way it comes from the tap. People who can afford it have elaborate filter systems installed in their kitchens to purify the water.
      They say that the coal burning power plants, the vehicles burning fossil fuels and industrial pollution make the city almost unfit to live in. People are dying prematurely from illnesses caused by the pollution.

      It is my last comment about man made pollution and climate change on this occasion. The evidence is plainly irrefutable.
      Those who ignore it are not doing anybody any favour!

    Exactly. Mayor Moonbeam in Vancouver is already trying to eliminate all new natural gas appliances for heating and cooking in all new buildings except for bio-gas whose supply would only meet a couple of percent of demand. Can banning replacement of existing installations be the next step?

    The power consumption of a high rise is the same as a industrial facility if one adds addition load by using electricity rather than a gas boiler to heat the building will significantly increase usage. Power has to come from somewhere.

      Wounder if moonbeam has financial interests in IPPs?

” The largest coal mining company in the world has announced it will close 37 mines because they are no longer economically viable.

Coal India, which produces around 82 per cent of India’s coal, said the mines would be decommissioned by March 2018.” They can’t compete with solar and wind . China is also lowering coal use in a similar way . Both of them are going to eat our lunch and it has nothing to do with co2 . It’s about getting a bigger bang out of solar and winds bucks . It’s called thermodynamic efficiency . Like going from horse/oxen driven economies to ICE tractors and transportation . That changed in thirteen years . From film to digital cameras took about the same . The Model E is starting to be delivered this month if you want one you’ll have to cue for at least two years . Whine all you like but the changes are unstoppable not because of climate change issues . It all comes down to the bottom line for everyone’s pocket book .

    Your reading into it a bit too deep there Ataloss.. A huge part of mining economics are grade controls, strip ratios, safety and environmental considerations. If they are shutting down metallurgical coal mines that will help us get our met coal exports..But yeah if they are thermal coal mines it is because of energy substitution so I will give you that one..

    You know what the big dirty secret is that the enviro nuts cant admit to? Green energy infrastructure cant exist without metallurigical coal..

      The subcontinent of India has a sixth of the world population . It’s the seventh largest area of countries in the world . They produce every category of just about everything including coal . Their largest coal company produces 82% of their coal needs . They have other producers as well . There are no secrets in industry . Reverse engineering has been around the block a few times . All of smelting can be done more accurately using electrodes and anodes . Most high tech metals and alloys can’t be made without electricity . The reason coal is used is because it’s cheap . Can’t smelt or form aluminum with it .

      Literally as I was typing my response to ataloss Yancoal just sealed a deal to buy Rio-Tinto’s coal assets for $2.6 billion..Thats a pretty bullish bet against you ataloss..lol

      I keep hearing how solar and wind are so cheap that fossils can’t compete, so why are they so expensive that economies that use them are in trouble?
      ==============================================

      “Awareness is slowly permeating through the media that renewables inevitably lead to higher electricity prices – and that the Australian energy grid is in deep trouble. But this awareness is too little, too late, to save what is left of what was once one of the cheapest electricity grids in the world.”

      ht tps://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/17/daily-telegraph-there-is-no-such-thing-as-affordable-renewable-energy/
      =============================================

      “The mindless rush to renewables has already done tremendous damage to the German standard of living, with 300,000 households each year having their electricity turned off for non-payment.”

      ht tp://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/06/after_paris_a_green_disaster_in_the_making_in_germany.html#ixzz4jqpdzaDd
      ==========================================

      “TransAlta is very interested in repowering this site. Unfortunately, right now, it’s not economically feasible,” Wayne Oliver, operations supervisor for TransAlta’s wind operations in Pincher Creek and Fort Macleod, said in an interview.

      “We’re anxiously waiting to see what incentives might come from our new government. . . . Alberta is an open market and the wholesale price when it’s windy is quite low, so there’s just not the return on investment in today’s situation.

      ht tps://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/13/wind-power-fails-in-canada-a-23-year-life-span-not-likely-to-be-replaced/

    Hey Ataloss miss me. I have been leaving chem trails and carbon trails all over the world for last two months.

    AMERICAN GEOPHYSICAL UNION WASHINGTON, DC — India will not be able to meet its Paris climate agreement commitments in the coming years if it carries through with plans to build nearly 370 coal-fired power plants, a new study finds.

    Oh about that Paris agreement for those worried about life giving C02 if the agreement was followed there would only theoretically be a temp effect of .05 degrees c despite trillion spent, wow.

      Sixty one days in the air , eh . interesting length of term . Next time ninety one days ? . Next time fly Emirates . You’ll have wifi the whole time .

      You just crack me up seemud !! !! ! . Thanks , I haven’t laughed this hard in two months . I’ve had a busy month as well PG , Williams lake , Vancouver , Kelowna , PG and home again .Wifi the whole way ( okay a couple of hours with no ping ) . Did you fly into caves ? Or did you forget your device ? Must have been bond stuff , eh ? Two months under the wire !!

    Oh Ataloss how is your imaginary solar system doing?

      Hey That’s a new one. I guess it’s SSDD every FFRA once again.

      seamutt it may not be imaginary. Someone told me your x leader left on a solar powered broom.

      Old man, my x leader, you haven’t been paying attention to my posts. I think your reading comprehension needs to improve.

Great to see the saskatoon bushes loaded this year, hope the huckleberries and blueberries are the same. Looks like our freeze thaw cycle killed off the hornet and yellow jacket population, but lots of honeybees in my raspberries which is a good sign. Lost most of my garlic due to the freeze thaw, but Van Rood says cover in with a layer of straw in the winter, it’ll save them. What do you do when your garlic don’t come up? Plant onions!

    Just hope we get regular rain so they don’t dry out.. ps no hornets & wasps is pretty nice too..!

    Bull, I did straw the last two seasons and lost my strawberries and my garlic didn’t show! I babies the suckers too! So Van Road will need another excuse far as I am concerned. And yes, my raspberries and the Saskatoon bushes are loaded! Where I live, ain’t gonna tell, :-) !!

    If we don’t get raid those saskatoons won’t be all that good.

    I like hornets and yellow jackets, they’re predators, they eat the bugs that I don’t want around me.

      If we don’t get raid???

      Typo.

      Meant rain.

My walnuts , butternuts , heartnuts , hazelnuts and witch hazels have gone into there most productive years . They are thirty two ish . I’ll have to give away most of them this year again . Apples are doing good too . Best news I’ve got from the grove is , No eastern hazel blight . It wiped out Washington , Oregon and lower mainland hazelnut groves . Washington and Oregon groves got state help . The lower mainland got nothing from the province . If I bring in eastern bright resistant trees , my hazels will die in their thirties . What to do ?

    It has been shown that the higher c02 concentration the atmosphere has greened the earth by 30%. Ataloss you should be thanking fossil fuels.

    No , I have to give thanks to me for not believing that my trees could not live this far North . Three and a half decades and going strong .

Dirtman and Northman don’t care what think about my comment. I view many commenting on this site as miserable old men with nothing but conservative useless view points to offer.

    What matters is what you think jakeadoo. They’re just Don and Quiote tilting at their respective windmills . Old men arguing about the weather . That never gets old ,eh ?

      Says the oldtimer.

    Jake so in your world only left progressive views to be allowed, very democratic of you.

    I’m just puzzled by your comment.

Ataloss, any ideas about how we should be dealing with this environmental problem?

June 28, 2017 – A Clean Energy’s Dirty Little Secret

“Discarded solar panels are piling up all over the world, and they represent a major threat to the environment. Clean energy may not be so clean after all.”

“A new study by Environmental Progress (EP) warns that toxic waste from used solar panels now poses a global environmental threat. The Berkeley-based group found that solar panels create 300 times more toxic waste per unit of energy than nuclear power plants. Discarded solar panels, which contain dangerous elements such as lead, chromium, and cadmium, are piling up around the world, and there’s been little done to mitigate their potential danger to the environment.”

“This is not to even mention the environmental damage done by making solar panels in the first place. A 2013 investigation by the Associated Press found that from 2007 to 2011, the manufacture of solar panels in California “produced 46.5 million pounds of sludge and contaminated water.”

Ataloss, what to do? What to do?

ht tp://www.nationalreview.com/article/449026/solar-panel-waste-environmental-threat-clean-energy?

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