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September 24, 2017 12:30 pm

NDP To Deliver First Budget

Monday, September 11, 2017 @ 6:02 AM

Prince George, B.C. – It is Provincial Budget day,   and the new NDP government will  lay out details on its spending plans.

 

Comments

Add lots of meaningless minimum wage jobs, spend lots on social and welfare. Rack up the debt. Get rid of the high paying jobs… And bit the hand that feeds you.

And here we go! Politician speeches, give us what we want to hear, and screw the North/Interior yet again.

Rumours are that they will finish the 4 laning of the Cariboo Connector at the pace of the Coq …. 4 years.

LOL

Before the budget is even tabled we are already $330 million a year in the red because of the loss of toll revenue and debt carrying costs from the elimination of tolls from the Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges.

If they follow through with the promise to pay renters $400 a year chalk up another $200 million in annual payments.

So right off the start a half a freaking billion dollars that were spent in a blatant vote buying effort that will do squat for the province as a whole.

The Massey Tunnel and Pattullo require billions in investments that the tolls would have helped pay for. Does not bode well for projects in the rest of the province such as completing the Cariboo connector.

Rent subsidies a total waste as it will not add a single rental unit to the market and the $400 will be quickly eaten up as landlords hold all the marbles in an ever tightening rental market.

This will not be a full budget as it takes a while to cook the books, remember Fudge-it-Budget, Horgan was one of Glen Clark’s henchmen during that time. One also has to wonder if the fartful forger Adrian Dix has been honing his skills over the last 16 years.

Once a full budget is announced can we expect to see:
-$1.5 billion annual cost for day care
-Increase in taxes to make up for shortfall from the elimination of medicare payments.
-$500 million in reduced revenue if hydro rates are frozen
-Billions spent but nothing to show for it if Site C cancelled or mothballed
-Millions spent in court costs to fight Kinder Morgan

I don’t know what the province’s credit rating will be by the time they are done but AA will be where a lot of the taxpayers will end up:(

    Isn’t it amazing how expensive it is going to be to clean up the terrible mess that the Liberals made of this Province.

    If you want to take the time to do some reading on the new Port Mann Bridge you would see that it is losing millions of dollars per year. Not sure how you can take money from a losing proposition and somehow use it to pay for the Massey Tunnel or the Pattullo bridge. Perhaps using the Liberal formula it can be done, however Hydro debt, ICBC debt, etc; indicate that the Liberals couldn’t properly finance a front lawn lemonade stand.

    Why is it **ok** to spend $8/9 billion on Site C which is the most useless project in North America if not the world, but not **ok** to spend money fighting Kinder Morgan pipeline.

    Is all the money in the Province supposed to be spent on Liberal dreams (or nightmares) only??

      “Isn’t it amazing how expensive it is going to be to clean up the terrible mess that the Liberals made of this Province. ”

      Yes, it’s appalling that the working stiffs in this province have been able to keep some of their income instead of handing it over to the government.

      Bend over BC, unless you’re in a publicly funded position, you’re in for a bumpy ride.

      Its always interesting when the mighty tighty righties invoke the working stiffs to support their insistence that services to those same working stiffs should be curtailed so others (i.e. them) can keep more money in their pockets. This in spite of the fact that the righty governments they support borrow money hand over fist to keep those taxes down. The working stiffs can’t bend over any more, they have been bent over taking it for the last 15 years, over and over again. Now, at last, they can stand erect!

      So they built the new Port Mann Bridge, borrowing the money to pay for it. Explain to me how it is losing money. Instead of collecting tolls (a steady source of additional money) the taxpayers of the entire province are now paying the debt off over a number of years. Is the elimination of tolls called *losing money* in your estimation?
      Were you against removing the tolls? I know, you are not in favour of building any bridges or twinning of highways. I remember the racket you made when the bridge across the Fraser was twinned and also how you objected to the rebuilding of the Cameron Street bridge. Your latest target are Site C, the Pattullo Bridge and the Massey Tunnel while they are having massive traffic jams, because during a forgettable recent decade nothing at all was built.

      Fortunately the generations before us were not like this, or we would have gravel roads and bailey bridges all over the province and not enough electricity to run a toaster and a dishwasher at the same time. OMG.

      “Its always interesting when the mighty tighty righties invoke the working stiffs to support their insistence that services to those same working stiffs should be curtailed so others (i.e. them) can keep more money in their pockets.”

      This makes absolutely zero sense.

      Discussions would be a lot more interesting if you could refrain from the attempts to insult. When someone says things like “mighty tighty righties” I assume they have no interest in listening.

      Prince George… massive traffic jams due to all those vehicles on the hwy’s at the same time with one person inside.

      Axman, that is one of the most self righteous statements I have heard on this site. I initially starterd using that expression because I was so sick and tired of the rightist, Liberal supporters continually and continuously insulting New Democrats by deliberatel misspelling names and anything associated with politics they did not like. They did that as a nasty putdown. So, I fight fire with fire and you do not like it. Look in a mirror all you righties. You are the orignators of this practice on this site. Next time someone insults a New Democrat or an NDP supporter on this site, Axman, will you be calling them out for it? Will you be putting your money where your mouth is?

      “Prince George… massive traffic jams due to all those vehicles on the hwy’s at the same time with one person inside.”

      That is because people live too far from the workplace.

      That is because they do not have jobs for life.

      That is because people are being replaced by automation.

      That is because it costs too much to retrain.

      That is because jobs are becoming redundant while new ones require higher technical knowledge which in turn, require better technical/scientific/management skills.

      And on it goes and comes around full circle to get back to becoming a population of nomads moving from residence to residence.

      Or, staying in the same residence, and living the life of a commuter in a GVRD that has not invested enough in transportation infrastructure of any sort. They are 20 years behind the times.

      If the population keeps growing at the present rate, they will continue to be 20 years or more behind the times…….

      At least they are trying, or were trying, to be ahead of the times as far as renewable energy goes, i.e. site C …..

      “Axman, that is one of the most self righteous statements I have heard on this site. I initially starterd using that expression because I was so sick and tired of the rightist, Liberal supporters continually and continuously insulting New Democrats by deliberatel misspelling names and anything associated with politics they did not like. They did that as a nasty putdown. So, I fight fire with fire and you do not like it. Look in a mirror all you righties. You are the orignators of this practice on this site. Next time someone insults a New Democrat or an NDP supporter on this site, Axman, will you be calling them out for it? Will you be putting your money where your mouth is?”

      ————

      I do not like it? That’s am interesting interpretation. In my opinion, you and anyone else who has to resort to childish name calling loses any credibility they may have had when they did so.

      I generally ignore any comments that use terms like “Neo-Con”, “Hoagie”, etc. etc. etc.

      Maybe mighty, frighty , tighty, rightie , would be more apt . I can still hear them crying about Trudeau’s hair and just not ready . And now the dear leader refrain . Well he sure beat the pants off of Quazimodo and fiends .

      Oh the horror of losing credibility with a chicken plucker . How are we ever going to get over that ?

      ammonra and ataloss, where on earth was your high and might moral indignation during the Federal Harper years and the BC Liberal years?

      ammonra, you state: Liberal supporters continually and continuously insulting New Democrats by deliberately misspelling names and anything associated with politics they did not like. They did that as a nasty putdown. So, I fight fire with fire and you do not like it

      Gee, I could substitute the word NDP or Green for Liberal and Liberal for New Democrats and it would very accurately describe what happened during the Harper Conservative terms and the BC Liberal terms in office!

      Crusty Clark, Harpercrites, alt-rights, Neo-Cons? Any of those sound familiar to you! They should!

      You cry like a couple of babies because us tighty, righties use words that hurt your feelings, but you absolutely fail to recognise that you bleeding heart loony lefties were more than happy to criticize and denigrate right wing governments, politicians and their supporters while they held power!

      You two were/are more than happy to dish it out, but you just can’t take it! Shame on you, now go to your quiet space for a time out!

      ammonra and ataloss, it will be so refreshing to hear you simply refer to right wing conservative thinking individuals as Federal Conservative or Provincial Liberal supporters!

      Thanking you in advance,
      signed your favourite, (at least I hope I am one of them) tightie-righties!

      Palopu, you state: “Isn’t it amazing how expensive it is going to be to clean up the terrible mess that the Liberals made of this Province.”

      Exactly what mess are you referring to? Seems like BC was doing fairly well under the Liberals. Decent job numbers! Reasonable tax rates! Reasonably good although a bit too large and overpaid public service! A budget surplus?

      That doesn’t exactly sound like a terrible mess!

Tolls – an expensive bureaucracy to collect money that the government is ultimately on the hook for anyway. Eliminate tolls, eliminate cost of collecting tolls, and save average working person time and money. Same holds true for MSP.

Daycare – how many women are working in dead end jobs or not at all because they can’t find a safe affordable place for their child. This could end up a net benefit to government coffers as single mothers move from being a tax consumer to a taxpayer.

Renters credit. Why is it if I own a home – and I do, the government gives me about $400.00 a year, but a renter, who pays property taxes via their rent shouldn’t get a break as well? Don’t be fooled, the landlord passes on all costs via the amount of rent charged. By doing this, the money goes directly to the renter and not the landlord.

Massey Tunnel and Patullo bridge should be paid for by tax dollars. There’s millions of people that use those accesses and they all pay taxes.

I don’t see anything inherently wrong in these spending proposals, I would just like honesty in who will be paying for them.

I hope these proposals work, and if they don’t, well, kick them out in 4 years and we can start the long process of paying for them again.

    So if the user is not expected to pay some of the costs associated with the services that they use why apply that logic just to highways/bridges. Why not remove fees from provincial campgrounds, licenses for hunting, fishing and driving, ferries, parking, tuition,etc? Free for all-shake the money tree!

    Landlords would be in the same boat as a homeowner with an investment property as expenses can be deducted are not eligible for grant. With rental rates exceeding $2k a month in Vcr a $400 annual payment is the proverbial drop in the ocean and as previously stated the $200 million+ in annual payments does nothing to address dire need for more units.

    With fairly high rates daycare spaces can be hard to find so even if a majority of costs are paid by government how will that increase the supply or come close to meeting current demand?

Often in these postings we get comments about removing tolls on bridges. I wonder if those same protesters would campaign for tolls on the Cariboo Connector. Remember, most people in the lower mainland would never use the connector, so why should their money go to pay for it? Put a toll on it, graduate the toll according to how much of it the driver uses, and recoup the cost over several years, just like they advocate for bridges. Let the user pay, that’s fair, isn’t it. Oh, yes, I know, all that revenue emanating from the North. Yet it is never mentioned that the revenue coming from the north is actually owned by the crown and all taxpayers are part owners. That means most of the owners of those resources, and therefore most of the value in them, actually emanates from the same lower mainland that some northerners apparently despise so much, if their negative comments about southerners is any indication. So, should Highway 97 be tolled, starting at Cache Creek, then at Williams Lake, then Quesnel or should we take the view that we are a single province with a single financial base and a single purpose in providing services to our citizens in a spirit of cooperation and equality?

    You are making a lot of sense! We are indeed a single province and we should all be treated equally and fairly! As far as the Cariboo Connector is concerned it turned out to be a project spread over 50 years for the completion. I advocated a toll system to help speed up the completion and have it done within ten years! Too bad they did not put a toll on it right away at the very beginning! The four laning or twinning would be completed by now and the tolls could be removed and the remaining debt added to the provincial debt in order to make us all equal!

    I would gladly pay a toll for a 4 lane divided highway between here and Vancouver especially if it bypassed the towns along the way. Trips would be safer, faster and far more enjoyable.The only caveat is as gopg2015 said that it be completed in a timely manner
    The costs to construct the Coq have been recovered and tolls are now a memory.
    By the same token would pay toll for Port Mann if I lived down there if it meant an hour or two less daily commute time.

    Because of all the loss to government coffers caused by the vote buying and how evil the car is to the left wing of the ndp/greens expect them to come up with a new revenue stream be it congestion charges or mobility pricing where a tax is charged for every km driven.

    The Coquihalla was tolled and it’s in the interior. Was there a lower mainland toll before that? The toll was removed once the costs were recovered, why not have that same system applied to the Lower Mainland?

    Was the Golden Ears Bridge really needed? Based on the limited number of people who decided not to use it when it had a toll attached, one could argue that it was a want, not a necessity.

      The Coquihalla was tolled long after the costs were recovered. Former Premier Bill Bennett took the NDP to task for not removing the tolls when they were in office in the late 1990’s in a public interview. He said the tolls collected to that point had paid for the road, and should come off. They didn’t come off. The Liberals under Gordon Campbell planned to ‘sell’ the road, (like they ‘sold’ BC Rail), and a private operator would collect tolls for the next 60 years. When that didn’t fly, he upped the toll from $ 10 to $ 13, where it stayed until just before the last election he led the Liberals into. Then he removed them, just after spending God only knows how much to renovate the toll booths! The NDP may be incompetent when it comes to handling the public finances, but the BC Liberals, as we’ll no doubt find out, were far, far worse.

      Socredible the Liberals could not sell the hwy but where able to basically sell electrical generation to private companies at the tune of 65 billion. Very expensive generation Hydro is forced to buy back. A sweet deal for liberal friends.

      Very sweet indeed. And perhaps that’s only the tip of the iceberg?

    “Often in these postings we get comments about removing tolls on bridges. I wonder if those same protesters would campaign for tolls on the Cariboo Connector.”

    There are no tolls on hwy97, for instance, because it is virtually the only way to get from PG to Quesnel, for instance … or Quesnel to Williams Lake … etc.

    The toll bridges are not the only way to get from A to B in the GVRD.

    We could build a bypass around PG, Hixon, Quesnel, Williams Lake, etc. and tol the bypasses. There is an option of how you go ….. A loonie for a single bypass …. or $5 for all the bypasses to save a dollar or two when driving to Vancouver.

    That is the nature of tolled public roads these days, it is an optional but faster route …. and it is paid by the user until it is fully paid off.

    I would keep the toll, since the benefit continues to be the same.

    Use the money for cancer research in Canada if you will, or any other charitable organization..

      Sooo more taxes then?

I have to shake my head when I hear people talk about tolling highway 97 South, or twinning it for that matter., All highway 97 needs at the moment is a few more passing lanes.

As far as highways go, highway 97 has very little traffic, and doesn’t warrant being twinned. If they twinned the highway and tolled it, it would take a hundred years to pay for it.

People in the Interior seem to have no knowledge as to what the term *heavy traffic* means. There is no **heavy traffic** in North Central BC. The closest we can come to a **busy** highway is 16 West.

With 325,000 people in the interior from Ft Nelson to Cache Creek, to Tete Jaune, to Prince Rupert, where does the **heavy traffic** come from. The Port Mann Bridge handles more vehicles in a day, than the whole interior does.

    “The Port Mann Bridge handles more vehicles in a day, than the whole interior does.”

    Hyperbole suits you well …… but you do not make a point with hyperbole except with those who cannot quickly figure out how to get a ballpark figure that will cause them to laugh at your hyperbole.

    The Port Mann bridge traffic is primarily GVRD commuter traffic, just as the 97 “bypass” is primarily PG commuter traffic.

    Add up all the internal Interior cities commuter traffic and it will be higher than the Port Mann commuter traffic, even though the catchment area may have a larger population than all the interior cities combined.

    The difference is, that the Port Mann bridge catchment area has many more routes than just the Port Mann bridge route to move vehicles.

      You are working with phantom numbers. You have no idea how many vehicles actually commute through out North Central BC. I am guessing you think that there is a huge commute in areas like Fraser Lake, Vanderhoof, Kitimat, Prince Rupert, Quesnel, Cache Creek, etc; etc;.

      So lets work with the number of 325,000 people in North Central BC. This number is not totally accurate, however for this exercise it is close enough. Now how many of the 325,000 actually own a car, and how many of them actually commute on a daily basis.

      My guess is at best 40% so this gives us an interior daily commute of 130,000, the daily traffic over the Port Mann bridge in June of this year was 128,000.

      So I gave you the benefit of doubt on the 40% commute number which means that my original statement of more people using the Port Mann bridge than the whole central interior was a little off, but not much.

      Your hyperbole on the other hand would lead people to think that the interior has a large number of commuters, which may be so in some peoples minds but in reality the numbers are insignificant when you stand them against the BIG picture.

      Have a nice day.

      Actually if we look at the Regional Districts for Northern BC we find a population of 313,609. So using the 40% number we get 125,443, so in effect less people commuting a day in North Central BC than the number of people using the Port Mann Bridge.

      Ahhhh. You gotta love the numbers game.

We already pay a toll, supposedly gas taxes, which mysteriously disappears into the bureaucracy.

I would like to see how effective our useless liberal MLA’s are now, when they have very little power in the legislative assembly. Let’s see what Bond, Morris and the other guy can do with very little power,can do in our riding. My guess is even less than they could accomplish when they had total control. I know many will say they did a great many things for people of influence, but for the majority of the lesser folks, they did sweet you know what!

    Guess what. Both have stated publicly they will not run in the next election.

    Do you realize they just gave this area the greatest gift they could. Those riding we among the safest in the province. Opening them up means that the NDP will look at them as being contestable.

    That means they have to do the same as every other party, woo us with promised gifts for this part of the province as the next election closes in …… and it may close in faster than many think.

      So you are saying that the next election may close in faster than we think, and that Bond and Morris will not run in the next election. So if an election is called in the next 6 months they will leave 3 years salary on the table.

    Then again ….. politicians have a knack of not keeping promises. Words are easy. Let us wait for the actions which are supposed to match the words..

    Yup. There were many calling on Bond to create automobile lemon laws in BC due to the ever increasing lemons being flogged in this province. She pretty much laughed and sipped her Timmies when asked to comment on it.

The Liberals also contracted MSP out to a private contractor Maximus at a cost of 68 million for the year 2015-2016. I am quite sure we can find someone in this province to look after MSP at a lesser cost.

    Did anyone in BC provide a bid at a lesser cost?

    Is there any guarantee that a BC low bidder would not bill for extra costs because the contract conditions changed allowing them to bill for those unforeseen conditions?

      Did Maximus contribute money to the BC liberals?

      We’re the BCliberals running a pay to play racket ?

      I not sure ataloss, but the NDP were definitely holding pay to play rackets, oops bingo games on Vancouver Island!

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